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今日下午3：30贾陆英老师《论语》问答录在老秘网QQ群“重温经典读书会”准时开讲。本期学习讨论《论语》为政篇第1章，网友们的参与热情高涨。老猫出差刚回，现整理如下： ! G$ a) K7 t, h' M7 O0 s& C
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">今天下午，我们学习讨论《论语》为政篇第% v- L, E a L3 ~0 m6 @3 ~& O8 a
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">子曰：$ }5 {' x8 _: A( n o, [1 Tmso-font-kerning:0pt">": S* T. P7 e5 b9 W# @% d# T; v2 Kmso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;; e3 o2 o+ w/ T) s0 v
mso-font-kerning:0pt">为政以德，譬如北辰，居其所而众星共之。) Z5 }1 L) y, H0 C% `) V' h$ ~: Rcolor:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">"
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">北辰：指北极星。所：处所、位置。共：同拱，环绕。比喻众多的人簇拥着一个被他们尊敬的人，或许多东西围绕着一个中心。+ {* ~% t% m% \( _! x# Bmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">孔子说：0 G+ j8 E9 u$ j
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">靠高尚的品德来施政，这样的为政者好比是北极星，居于自己的位置上，众多的星星都环绕着它。; t$ c: B1 z- m0 a. cmso-font-kerning:0pt">”
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">问：这句话表达了孔子的什么主张？9 F% j# A' X2 z0 M
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6 {0 N1 c+ N/ L: ~. M4 Q9 E7 ~Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">答：孔子以北辰居其中而众星环绕作比喻，深刻揭示了具有高尚品德对于为政者的重要性，具体、形象、生动地表达了孔子的德治思想。当时，在如何治理国家的问题上，主要有两种主张：其一是依靠政令刑法，强制百姓服从；其二是通过道德教化，引导百姓走上正道。孔子主张后者，强调为政者首先要以自己高尚的品德为榜样，尔后才能教化、影响、引导民众。: l0 ~+ d3 J$ ?! w4 B
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9 b, c1 k9 F. u& c9 k7 QTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服+ L! m2 ]$ p) r a- Umso-font-kerning:0pt"> : q: d- t; y! _2 d3 r6 u* s
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服' |2 B; [2 p) V3 q4 A+ E$ r
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+ y, g0 V& D6 g+ H, D% ~mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。 h M6 A: n1 e! z3 A2 l0 `mso-font-kerning:0pt">" 9 r! ]9 v/ C0 v6 Z9 O
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8 x6 g5 s5 K! U: e9 L& G/ U& wTahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">无心随风：4 Q" I4 l) p0 k5 _5 j3 W% k$ H0pt"> 3 {: m0 n& r2 S+ Q! z
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？孔子的人性不分善恶，他信奉有教无类。我认为是孔子信奉的是德治礼治，而不是德治法治，儒法结合是后人的创新+ c+ g% T1 y: w H( T) K* W
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒家法家绝对是治国两大法宝，是不是有说内法外王。希望依靠道德来治理国家。道德高尚至极只能是圣人，而不是君王。君王要有仁爱之心，但不能妄想通过道德来治理国家吧。干部要清明、清廉、清白$ n, o2 y; Z# w- r/ W) y& L
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# y ]0 d B4 |7 A) D3 @" G7 I1 dTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想。儒法相结合不是从以往执政者所言的外儒内法。应该是在去除封建统治者为维护统治所宣扬的糟粕基础上，留下儒家所宣扬的大仁、大爱的思想，在结合现代化的法制、民主的精神，才是真正的儒法结合。一味从古，不如不学; n) x: Q$ x1 V: h& K4 V
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">现在不是都在强调以民为本，为人民服务么9 O( Z; H4 Y- x- W$ O E( X8 p
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">这一思想的文化渊源，就是德治、仁政思想。德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？8 y8 ^6 g* ?( t5 \6 r4 tmso-font-kerning:0pt">——! y% l6 c# a4 l9 @- Ifont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;0 d7 D$ S: a) V4 p6 V- w
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">基本赞同。孔子所说- C0 `: D: B0 F b) i9 imso-font-kerning:0pt">"9 U6 |( n: V: M/ L) B, r
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以礼仪道德，民治而心服& `6 ~5 r/ `# X0pt"> - g: U. b G! }% y
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本善5 F5 h: w& y2 @6 b
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服! ]8 c, g: ?, m! D+ I0 D* m
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( n+ c% P' s+ i1 t# X+ G q4 Vmso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本恶。人性本善，礼仪道德，天下大和。人性本恶，礼仪道德，与虎谋皮啊/ y5 {2 y; t, B1 F5 _# @
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( g+ `" x0 D8 F3 n7 Y& aTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">政令刑法重在社会上的约束，讲究实效，不遵守即被处罚，道德教化重在精神上、舆论上的约束，不遵守会被谴责和孤立，但不是收到立竿见影的实质处罚# X8 Z% o+ V4 G4 {mso-font-kerning:0pt"> - H, `9 _ f/ M1 ?2 [+ }5 `
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7 L M, e: w, ?3 o3 N8 ]. [Tahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">小风飕飕地：4 ^5 J" j* G5 p' ^' O1 x2 }7 b0pt"> $ I$ h) _( {% l7 r
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. p, C! p1 Y" _6 L ]Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我认为国治才能民安，所以教化没人人外儒是必要的，每个人也都有义务做到外儒！民安后如何能够实现久安呢？这就需要内法的作用啦！( j. l) c! U. _6 J. q/ W: \+ i
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# [" \! @3 ?4 j8 @) UTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我觉得现在很多人被大众观念里的道德观绑架了，就出现了所谓的装和假 a) r( r: w+ U ^) ~mso-font-kerning:0pt">
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8 h U. t E/ H! l2 a2 ?' n8 ATahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒学是以伦理道德思想为特质的观念体系，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的显著特征之一。儒学是以礼乐文明为中心的文化系统，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的又一显著特征。现在确有一些人认为，道德修养方面的问题是1 q, v: S: `# E% p7 L/ F
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& T, K. K; F+ `$ jmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">细节问题2 s, Q& r% i; }) i7 D( y7 S
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% ?+ \% ~ }- `mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">千里之堤，溃于蚁穴1 Z0 c6 n+ \6 _ M; }. y7 C& Amso-font-kerning:0pt">”! I! R2 _8 I" h& {3 y; O6 s" [; Ffont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;
1 x5 E$ {/ o1 ~& smso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，少数人走上违法犯罪道路，往往是从道德品质上出问题开始的。没有职业操守，就不可能做到爱岗敬业。我们培养敬业精神，一定要紧紧抓住加强道德修养这个重点。
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